Sometimes I wish people wore signs… or … registered all their thoughts in a central database that I could easily access, preferably tied into some sort of Heads-Up Display which used facial recognition and high-speed data access to feed me vital information about everyone I met, and that emails and IMs were hooked into the same system, so I could know important things about people right from the get-go.
Like, I just got an email from a 13 year old in Tucson who likes my paintings and may be interested in buying. Which is great. If he has the money. My prices are very low right now, actually, so it isn’t inconceivable. I responded professionally and completely, and if he’s interested, I’ll know soon enough, but wouldn’t it be nice if I could tell right off the bat whether he was genuinely serious about buying, and financially capable of same? Whether he buys or not, it’s nice to know that he likes the work, but should I be responding as to a groupie or fan, or professionally, as to an art collector? I chose the latter.
Or with Laura. We’ve been corresponding for about a couple of months and … I want to go into the details at some point, but I am not sure it is relevant here, but … what is relevant here is that until I pressed the issue (because I sensed something was amiss, and drove conversations in that direction… after which it took her over two weeks to respond) I had no idea that … not only is she not looking for or interested in a serious romantic relationship of any kind, but she has never been in a relationship that required fidelity of any kind, and even if she were interested in having a relationship with someone, she wouldn’t want it to be a monogamous one. Which seems odd to me, considering that in the second or third conversation we had we spoke at length about monogamy and fidelity and how I am not interested in relationships that are not monogamous… months ago… But wouldn’t it have been nice if upon first hearing from her I could know that she has no interest in relationships and has never bothered with fidelity? I very likely would have avoided investing any of myself in her, had I known that. It’s not like it was easy or casual… she lives 3500 miles away… I wasn’t running into her at the local coffee shop or library… I was going out of my way to get ahold of her, spending hours and days writing letters to her… if she just wanted a casual friendship, well, I don’t know about you, but I don’t typically work that hard to create a casual friendship with someone I may never meet. (Or have erotic fantasies about them, which is something we BOTH did re: each other, but which … no… no, I don’t tend to have erotic fantasies about my casual friends, and if I find myself having them anyway, I look into advancing the relationship past ‘friend’, eh?)
Or … imagine going out to a club and knowing at a glance who wanted what, not just out of the evening, but in relationships and in life in general. You see a beautiful young woman and think about asking her to dance, but see that she is married with kids and just out for a night of fun. If you’re looking for the same thing, great, she can see that and you two can have fun dancing. If you’re looking for something more, you don’t even waste the time talking to her. And no, a person can’t be broken down into likes and dis-likes and give you a fair picture, but if you have “conflicting worldviews” (say, a gaia-loving wiccan and a captain of industry protestant), you would know right away not to bother trying to get together for something that became ‘serious’ enough to bring these things up. Sure, some people are just looking for a string of steamy nights of passion with no intellectual or emotional connection, but … well, that would all be obvious, too.
Hobbies, obsessions, passions, occupations and recreations. Religious beliefs, dreams, aspirations, biases and prejudices, expectations, and what other relationships they are currently or very recently involved in. All out in the open from the moment you meet someone.
Wouldn’t that be nice? If people were just open about who they are and what they want?
I am trying to be. It’s hard sometimes, but I do my best. It’s hard to let people know who I am and what I want over the loud music in the club. It’s hard to get through to people that the words I’m speaking are the truth, the whole truth, not something I like to say to make you like me exactly, but what I actually mean. It’s hard to get people to reciprocate. When I started with Laura I thought I was making my intentions clear by beginning the conversation “How would you like to be courted?” and then proceeding to explain that I wanted to get to know her and to try to form a relationship with her, that I wanted to know how she preferred to go from strangers to intimates. But I guess that didn’t get it across. Or when, on that 2nd or 3rd conversation when we discussed at length monogamy and fidelity and why we both agreed that we didn’t like infidelity, and I know I said outright I was not interested in being in a polyamorous or “open” relationship. I guess I wasn’t clear enough.
Or when I told her I was falling in love with her. Or when I revealed that I was, in fact, in love with her.
And when, earlier than those, I saw her use the words “yours” and “mine” as in “I’m yours and you’re mine,” and my multi-page response must not have been clear enough that my understanding of those words implies posession of a sort, which implies (to me only, I suppose) the idea that if I am hers I am no one else’s… if she is mine, she is no one else’s… and if not, then why use those words? And use them again and again and again and again? It only encouraged me, and I told her as much, in writing, quoting her, telling her she was only reinforcing and building up our relationship, encouraging me to love her and love her more, seeming to be …
nevermind. I have got off track, here.
What was the track? AH, yesh. I wish I’d known sooner. I wish she’d taken any of a hundred opportunities to tell me she was taking the introversion road of self-examination-before-attempting-external-relationships. I wish… I wish Sara had known all this, and not recommended to me explicitly that I pursue Laura. Sara, your matchmaking skills are wanting. In the future, try not to set up people who have no interest in a relationship with people you know are very serious about having a meaningful relationship. Yeah.
And that’s what I have to say about that. I’m going to bed.
I can’t help but comment a bit, just my perspective, take it for what you will. I’ve found that two things seem relevant here.
1st, even though I don’t know her, it sounds to me like she wanted you, then pussed out due to your being so far away, saying something that scared her, her finding interest in someone else, or some other random factor, could be many. Because you’re right, about all the things you said, but without another factor, they don’t add up.
2nd point. After my numerous failed relationships, I’ve learned one very important fact. People change. Not like over the years of life and hardship, like over the process of persuing someone they want, and then having the person they want. It’s all a pretty smile and well-behaved manners until they no longer have to “work” to have you. Even if you give yourself over, it still happens. I don’t entirely understand why, but the package you see on the dance floor, or the first night in bed, or the long talks over coffee, not what you’re really getting yourself into. I also wish there were a sign, a real one, so you could know that they actually have “X” habits, but there isn’t. The best bet is friendship first… And to be as honest and up front and “real” as possible, hoping that your behavior will invoke a positive response of like kind.
My two cents, take it as that.
I can’t help but comment a bit, just my perspective, take it for what you will. I’ve found that two things seem relevant here.
1st, even though I don’t know her, it sounds to me like she wanted you, then pussed out due to your being so far away, saying something that scared her, her finding interest in someone else, or some other random factor, could be many. Because you’re right, about all the things you said, but without another factor, they don’t add up.
2nd point. After my numerous failed relationships, I’ve learned one very important fact. People change. Not like over the years of life and hardship, like over the process of persuing someone they want, and then having the person they want. It’s all a pretty smile and well-behaved manners until they no longer have to “work” to have you. Even if you give yourself over, it still happens. I don’t entirely understand why, but the package you see on the dance floor, or the first night in bed, or the long talks over coffee, not what you’re really getting yourself into. I also wish there were a sign, a real one, so you could know that they actually have “X” habits, but there isn’t. The best bet is friendship first… And to be as honest and up front and “real” as possible, hoping that your behavior will invoke a positive response of like kind.
My two cents, take it as that.
I have a few comments to those comments.
“But without another factor, they don’t addup.” The thing is, people don’t always add up. In fact, I would say they rarely do, and the younger they are the less they add up (generally speaking). I think before both people know clearly what they want out of a partner and are comfortable with themselves AND then find someone in a similar situation that is compatible, having successful relationships is difficult.
That isn’t to say you shouldn’t necessarily try anyway – all the wrongs make it clearer what right is, and all the hurts can make you wise. But it is important to be up front about things and not lead people to think things exist that do not.
As for people changing once they no longer have to “work” to have you… I think the flaw is in thinking of it in terms of “having” someone. Once you start thinking in terms of yourself being part of a unit that your partner is the other half of, it seems to me that it stops being “having someone” and starts just “being”. You don’t own it, you’re a part of it, and it owns you because you willingly let it. Because it is far better than any alternative you could possibly imagine.
I think I have more to say on the matter, but it is time for me to go serve people chimichangas.
I have a few comments to those comments.
“But without another factor, they don’t addup.” The thing is, people don’t always add up. In fact, I would say they rarely do, and the younger they are the less they add up (generally speaking). I think before both people know clearly what they want out of a partner and are comfortable with themselves AND then find someone in a similar situation that is compatible, having successful relationships is difficult.
That isn’t to say you shouldn’t necessarily try anyway – all the wrongs make it clearer what right is, and all the hurts can make you wise. But it is important to be up front about things and not lead people to think things exist that do not.
As for people changing once they no longer have to “work” to have you… I think the flaw is in thinking of it in terms of “having” someone. Once you start thinking in terms of yourself being part of a unit that your partner is the other half of, it seems to me that it stops being “having someone” and starts just “being”. You don’t own it, you’re a part of it, and it owns you because you willingly let it. Because it is far better than any alternative you could possibly imagine.
I think I have more to say on the matter, but it is time for me to go serve people chimichangas.
Then being young and confused could be her factor. Regardless you don’t get from point A to point B from what I read without there being something in the middle. If she’s young and confused, then that would explain it. I think that people do add up, you just have to find the factors that are causing them to behave the way they do. There’s always a reason, even if it’s something as abstract as the way they have a certain mood disorder pertaining to the summertime, or a long lost friend that they remembered that caused them to freak out. Something is always going on in their brain that causes the way people act.
I think that “being” a part of someone as another half is a luxury that not all of us (single people) have. You have to find that one person, make sure that everything is compatible, show who you are, make an effort, before you get to the part where you share your being. For most, I gather, it’s not an overnight process.
And that part about trying anyway… Well, maybe it’s my just-broken-up opinion. But sometimes you’ve tried to much, and you need to stop trying. There is a point where one might say, I haven’t found what I’m looking for, maybe I need to take some time and figure out what it is that’s going wrong here. Some people say that it is then when you find what you really desire…
Even if it’s them, not you, that’s having the problem.
Then being young and confused could be her factor. Regardless you don’t get from point A to point B from what I read without there being something in the middle. If she’s young and confused, then that would explain it. I think that people do add up, you just have to find the factors that are causing them to behave the way they do. There’s always a reason, even if it’s something as abstract as the way they have a certain mood disorder pertaining to the summertime, or a long lost friend that they remembered that caused them to freak out. Something is always going on in their brain that causes the way people act.
I think that “being” a part of someone as another half is a luxury that not all of us (single people) have. You have to find that one person, make sure that everything is compatible, show who you are, make an effort, before you get to the part where you share your being. For most, I gather, it’s not an overnight process.
And that part about trying anyway… Well, maybe it’s my just-broken-up opinion. But sometimes you’ve tried to much, and you need to stop trying. There is a point where one might say, I haven’t found what I’m looking for, maybe I need to take some time and figure out what it is that’s going wrong here. Some people say that it is then when you find what you really desire…
Even if it’s them, not you, that’s having the problem.
Okay, first. Marie’s first comment, 2nd point. That’s what I want to know, from the beginning. Who is the person the person is behind the illusion that seems to be so popular at the beginning? I don’t want to get to know one person only to find out that when they finally relax because they aren’t “working” or intentionally pursuing a relationship that they are someone else, that all that getting to know you was for naught. To my perception it is not that “people change”, as you put it, but that “people lie, hide things, and act.” Whether they know it or not. Until gradually, over time, they slowly reveal to you who they really were all along… and it SEEMS like they’ve changed. If I could see their true self, all their thoughts, to the deepest level, the moment I met them, couldn’t we skip that whole false beginning?
Iain, I agree with you that people don’t often “add up”. And … well, that depending upon what you consider “success” for a relationship that not knowing who you are and what you want from a partner (and/or what you want from a relationship, and what you consider ‘success’ for a relationship), most will find relationships a difficult proposition. And as far as ‘having’ goes… well, to me, saying “I’m yours and you’re mine”… when I say it it isn’t about ‘having’ the other person, it’s about giving myself to the other person, and to the relationship… and about my belief that the reciprocal is true.
Now, re: Marie’s second comment, first idea, I don’t know how to know whether she moved from one point to another, or whether she simply stood still and I somehow got her position wrong. On your second idea, I believe that how easy it is depends on you. If you’re willing, you can give yourself over overnight, and if they’re willing, you’re there. Even if everything isn’t compatible, even if you don’t know everything about someone and they don’t know everything about you, if you both choose to allow it, it can go over… in an instant. As far as … the idea that if you keep trying and trying and it still doesn’t work, that maybe you need to look at yourself … that’s okay. Just be honest that that’s what you’re doing, and if that’s what you’re doing, do it. But Iain’s right, too. Just because you don’t know yourself entirely, just because it’s going to take more effort, these things don’t mean you oughtn’t try.
Okay, first. Marie’s first comment, 2nd point. That’s what I want to know, from the beginning. Who is the person the person is behind the illusion that seems to be so popular at the beginning? I don’t want to get to know one person only to find out that when they finally relax because they aren’t “working” or intentionally pursuing a relationship that they are someone else, that all that getting to know you was for naught. To my perception it is not that “people change”, as you put it, but that “people lie, hide things, and act.” Whether they know it or not. Until gradually, over time, they slowly reveal to you who they really were all along… and it SEEMS like they’ve changed. If I could see their true self, all their thoughts, to the deepest level, the moment I met them, couldn’t we skip that whole false beginning?
Iain, I agree with you that people don’t often “add up”. And … well, that depending upon what you consider “success” for a relationship that not knowing who you are and what you want from a partner (and/or what you want from a relationship, and what you consider ‘success’ for a relationship), most will find relationships a difficult proposition. And as far as ‘having’ goes… well, to me, saying “I’m yours and you’re mine”… when I say it it isn’t about ‘having’ the other person, it’s about giving myself to the other person, and to the relationship… and about my belief that the reciprocal is true.
Now, re: Marie’s second comment, first idea, I don’t know how to know whether she moved from one point to another, or whether she simply stood still and I somehow got her position wrong. On your second idea, I believe that how easy it is depends on you. If you’re willing, you can give yourself over overnight, and if they’re willing, you’re there. Even if everything isn’t compatible, even if you don’t know everything about someone and they don’t know everything about you, if you both choose to allow it, it can go over… in an instant. As far as … the idea that if you keep trying and trying and it still doesn’t work, that maybe you need to look at yourself … that’s okay. Just be honest that that’s what you’re doing, and if that’s what you’re doing, do it. But Iain’s right, too. Just because you don’t know yourself entirely, just because it’s going to take more effort, these things don’t mean you oughtn’t try.